Wednesday, January 25, 2006

You Gotta Use What's Out There To Promote Your Books

Working under the assumption that we want more poetry books published, especially books by unknown and lesser-known poets by small independent presses, we should expect those presses to market their titles aggressively and we shouldn't hold it against them if they partake in promotion. If they don't, it's unlikely word will get out about the books and few sales will be made. If few sales are made, the money spent creating the books won't be recovered, and if the press can't (at the very least) break-even, it's going to be difficult for the press to continue publishing books. Some poets may find the economics of this distasteful -- there's this bizarre "we're supposed to be above it" attitude that bugs me. What we're supposed to be above is publishing a crappy book just because we know it'll sell well -- Faber & Faber should have been above publishing Billy Corgan.

But we should never be above getting the word out about good work -- no matter how commercially unviable it may seem. It's our responsibility to our authors to push the titles. Unless we want poetry publishers to be limited to university presses, presses owned by Bertlesman, Time Warner, etc., the handful of presses able to get grants, and the independently wealthy -- publishers must think of the bottom line. We must think creatively -- because we have small or no marketing budgets.

I'm very new (and green) at this and I'm trying lots of things to get publicity for the Bedside Guide -- and I'm thinking past the anthology -- how much attention I'm able to get for this will help garner attention for the single-author collections I plan to publish in the near future.

I'm making goofs, trying out things that don't seem to have an immediate (or any) impact, it's all very very early, too early to tell. As time goes on, I'm going to discuss some of the ways I've tried to market the anthology. I'm doing this to share my experiences with other small publishers and hopefully start a dialogue that I can learn from as well.

Jimmy brings up Amazon Lists. I'm not sure if he really has a beef or if he's just teasing -- no matter, I'm interested in it because it's one of the things I did to promote the anthology. And why not? It's free. It's being seen by people who are already looking at poetry books -- so it's targeted. Why shouldn't a editor take advantage of this? And why would a editor lamely title her list "Five books published by the press I work for?" -- she wants to pique readers' interest, not make them roll their eyes. Do we really have to be 100% transparent and disclose our entire backgrounds --even when it comes to "Listmania"? That editor could have created a bogus account or used a friend's and put together the list under a different name and flew completely under the radar. Would that be preferable? She used her name and referred to herself as "editor" -- I don't see the sneakiness (if that's what is being implied).

Here are my 3 Amazon Lists I put together a few weeks ago to promote the Bedside Guide -- it's too early to know how effective they are -- I know the lists are being viewed, although not by nearly as many as I would have expected:

Very Discreet Poets (wink wink) -- includes books by some of the contributors, it's my hope that people looking at books by these poets will discover they have work in the anthology

Poems For Your Valentine -- hoping to capitalize on the holiday

Intimate Evening Essentials -- hoping to capitalize on people getting busy -- surprisingly, this has been the least viewed list, shame, I spent the most time on it


Now if only I can get those jokers at Amazon to put the picture of the book cover up -- I've sent it to them three times.

33 Comments:

At 10:01 PM, Blogger CLAY BANES said...

Reb, you're doing a great job. Keep going.

We sold gobs of then-Verse's (hi, Wave Books!) Isn't It Romantic? last year. We'd gotten it straight out, Nov. 04, because. Because we like Wave/Verse. But it sold well at Valentine's, huzzah, to good people with good manners who have never heard of Ron Silliman's blog.

All to the good.

If I hear another complaint about poetry anthologies, I'm going to puke.

 
At 11:41 PM, Blogger Laurel said...

I am, quite literally, trying to pitch TV spots about "How to put together a Kosher-for-Passover Easter Basket"... to promote Half/Life...

And balls to anyone who says I shouldn't. Including my daddy (hi Daddy!).

 
At 1:32 AM, Blogger jwg said...

My only complaint would be if you were not pushing the work. I am always happy to hear about a new book.

 
At 1:22 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

Well, I was just being a dick. But now that you mention it:

"I'd read more poetry if more poetry were like that!" as a list title of 5 books you edited for a press you work for? What exactly is behind the title of that list? I'd like to talk about the ways poets market their work and the work they put into the world. In some cases, like this list and the way Sarabande is marketing that crap anthology, I think they've made poor decisions. There's a fine line betweening promoting poetry and promoting oneself.

I expect marketing departments to make crass decisions about how to talk about poetry in the world. Not all promotion is good promotion in my opinion. But, you know, I'm pretty much a mean-spirited dickhead. Just so you know.

xxxjimmy

 
At 1:34 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

You remember that story from the Bible about Jesus going apeshit in the temple and flipping over people's book tables or whatever it was. I *always* wondered about that story. I mean, Jesus doesn't lose his cool that often? What's the deal, Jesus?

He didn't like people doing business in his Mother's House. The temple was supposed to be above that kind of commercialism shit. Because it's a temple. A place of worship, a holy place, quiet, a place to think and pray.

I'm not really a very good Jesus stand-in.

xxxjimmy

 
At 4:50 PM, Blogger shanna said...

forgive me father, for i have made a listmania list.

i agree with you reb. cheap, easy, effective. why not?

"i would read more poetry if more poetry were like this" is a paraphrase of part of my editorial philosophy (at least re: the poetry i worked on for ssp). it's in quotations to imply that it's what a potential reader might say after being impressed by one of the books on the list. and i definitely wasn't being sneaky. as reb points out my name and "editor" is right at the top of the list. if you click "real name" you can even see my softskull email address on my profile page.

pretending to be somebody else would be dicey, and i don't see any reason for it. i like these books (obviously) and want people to know about them.

 
At 5:04 PM, Blogger RL said...

Well -- I do agree there's good marketing and bad marketing. Where I draw the line is advertising on feminine hygeine products and jock itch ointment.

Making a list on a bookseller's website -- well, perhaps because I'm "guilty" of that too, that doesn't seem like much of an offense.

 
At 5:18 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

Well, you've had three months, Shanna. Why not add something you haven't edited? Like do something for somebody else for no reason.

And I think that publishing motto is complete bullshit. In case you're wondering. Your schtick has become stale.

xxxjimmy

 
At 5:21 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

PS: Anybody can market their books however they like. Just like I can criticize people for being careerist weirdos. So there it is.

 
At 5:31 PM, Blogger shanna said...

yeah, you've made yourself pretty clear. here and back channel. i've got no questions.

since it's not much of a career when you don't get paid, i have another job. it's ok. but i don't like it as much.

 
At 5:37 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

Yeah, I don't know why people do weird careerist things in poetry. Doesn't $eem worth it. Maybe the motto could be like "Shanna could read more poetry that isn't just books she's edited..." That's just a thought.

xxxjimmy

 
At 5:41 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

I mean like, what a coincidence! The only books worth reading come out of Soft Skull. That you edited! How lucky and smart you must feel! That kind of thing.

xxxjimmy

 
At 5:42 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

An alternate title for your list could be something like "I EDITED THESE BOOKS AND THEY WILL BLOW YOUR ASS OFF! THAT'S HOW GOOD THEY ARE!!"

Caps are optional.

xxxjimmy

 
At 6:14 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

For the record the list says you are a "poet & editor." Not that you edited these specific books. The ones you think "people would read more poetry if more poetry were like this." I've been scanning the bestseller list for those titles, I'll get back to you.

xxxjimmy

 
At 9:22 PM, Blogger CLAY BANES said...

now i've completely forgotten again why comments aren't enabled on xxx behrle's blog.

 
At 9:50 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

I find other people's opinions boring. That's why.

Yours especially.

xxxjimmy

 
At 11:31 AM, Blogger Unknown said...

Hey Reb,

You are doing a great job with the No Tell (mag and anthology). Have you thought about asking bloggers to mention it on their blogs? I'd be happy to do that for you. Just lemme know.

I think marketing rocks!! It gets the work out there.

Deb

 
At 11:41 AM, Blogger RL said...

Hey Deb -- I haven't specifically asked, but a lot of bloggers already have -- I'm always appreciative of a mention.

Reb

 
At 11:44 AM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

I'm all for marketing: just not marketing that compares itself to other poems. Like say for example I put on the cover of my next book BETTER THAN ANYTHING SOFT SKULL EVER PUBLISHED. Wouldn't that be weird? So why is an editor's credo "I'd read more poetry if more poetry were like that!" I think there's plenty of poetry, plenty of readers. Like, what's so wrong with what's out there? You can market w/o static...sure...have a great time.

xxxjimmy

xxxjimmy

 
At 12:41 PM, Blogger RL said...

I hear what you're saying, Jimmy. I still think it's a non-issue. It's an Amazon list -- that's all.

And I've been reading Shanna's blog for over two years -- and it's obvious to me she reads a lot of poetry and she talks about a lot of different books, many that she hasn't edited or contributed -- it seems like I inexplicably stepped into a personal dispute and I did not intend to do that and I have no interest in getting involved -- I want editors to get behind their authors and really push the books -- and I suppose my issue is really with what I view as criticism of that.

 
At 1:23 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

I have no personal beef with Shanna or Soft Skull. I don't care *at all* about amazon lists. I'd like poets to think about what they put out there. And how we get people to pay attention to our projects. Is it at the expense of other projects. Must we be down on others to be up on ourselves? I just put it up as a snarky note on my blog. If you really wanna discuss it great. Everyone here seems to be like ALL MARKETING GOOD and BY THE WAY HAVE YOU SEEN MY STUFF?

I'm a pretty nice and reasonable guy generally. Very un-Jesus-like though. I do think poems should be above weird politics, weird marketing and weird self-promotion. Wouldn't that be nice?

xxxjimmy

 
At 1:32 PM, Blogger RL said...

That would be nice.

 
At 1:33 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

PS: Soft Skull's published some great books. And Shanna's an OK poet. But the impulse behind "I'd read more poetry if more poetry were like that!" is wrong-headed. Especially when it's just a commercial for your own press. If someone took out an ad in APR with that catchline there would be riots. Maybe we could use some riots.

If people want to use their weblogs as cuddly commercial places where people cosy up and rub up and down one another *great*. I don't know if that will actually help sell more poetry books, but good luck.

xxxjimmy

 
At 2:22 PM, Blogger shanna said...

i don't understand. why would anybody think the title of that list is down on other poetry? it's directed at people, like i said before, who don't already read lots of poetry. most of ssp's poetry books are cross-categorized like: poetry/music/memoir/queer studies. (that happens to all be dan nester.) it's an attempt to broaden poetry's audience by tying themed collections (mostly what we do) to readers' other interests and getting poetry books into "shelving" categories beyond the two bottom shelves of the last bookcase in the back by the dusty fake plant.

really, i'm surprised anybody would read the title as "these five books of poems are better than everything not on this list." that's not what the words mean. they mean: "here are some examples of some great poems that might convince you to read other poems if you do not already" but that is too long.

once i made a list of books all about german immigration to texas in the 1800s. it was pretty good. but most of the books were used and out of print and when the marketplace sellers sold out, i deleted it.

i just got home from the dentist and am shot full of something goofy making. gotta go.

 
At 2:28 PM, Blogger shanna said...

oh, and i should point out that i don't officially work for soft skull anymore, so it's a personal list. i've been volunteering since 2003 and resigned as assoc. publisher a couple of months ago. technicality. i'm still don't see any problem with the list.

carry on.

 
At 3:10 PM, Blogger The Overlook Press said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At 3:11 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

Well, I don't see any real aesthetic similarities between these 5 books. The only connection I can figure out is that they share an editor and a publisher. Please flesh it out for us. Why would *these books* on *your list* appeal to an audience that doesn't read poems? What are the books of poems that are implied, that turn readers off?

xxxjimmy

 
At 3:44 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

PS: You went to school with two of the poets, right? So are you guys part of some kind of school? What about these books (2 of which I read and liked) will appeal to people who otherwise don't read poems? What's your secret?

xxxjimmy

 
At 4:04 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

And it's not like "Don't read much poetry? Start here!" There is something implied: a reader having turned up their nose at poetry before.

Gawd, darling! This Soft Skull book is tremendous! I wish more poetry was more like this. Because I hate poetry otherwise! Everything I've seen not published by Soft Skull!

Unless there's some sort of aesthetic string you want to talk about. Surely you see what your title is doing: it's not benign. Soft Skull poetry is poetry people want to read, other poetry is poetry people probably don't want to read. Unless, I guess, Soft Skull gets the rights to publish it or something down the road. Then non-poetry reading people would like it. These kinds of massive marketing ideas are why Soft Skull poetry books are at the top of the bestseller list, no doubt.

xxxjimmy

 
At 5:08 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

Here is Kerri Agodon's amazon list:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/15A5FSTUK1I86/002-3318327-7594435?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Notice her title: "Poetry! Great Poetry Books by Contemporary Poets..."

Pretty upbeat, positive! Lots of different poets. Her list has been view 200+ times. There doesn't seem to be any editorial connection. I don't think she's a publisher or editor of any of these books. There seems to be no agenda. She is simply singling out books she likes and wants to recommend. Great!

It is not geared to some apparently untapped market of people who "don't read poems." Where is this market: the kind that will somehow be won over by some poems but in general don't like poems? Has Soft Skull worked with some kind of focus group? Is this based on market research? "If only there were more books written by people who were at New School at the same time! Then this untapped market of people who don't like poems would suddenly realize, WAIT A MINUTE! I LIKE THIS! AND I WANT TO READ MORE! MORE SOFT SKULL POETS, PLEASE!"

And, you know, if you don't *work for* Soft Skull anymore, would it kill you to put other books on your list? From other publishers? Books you didn't edit? Why is it strictly books you've had a professional relationship with? There must be other books from other publishers that would make appease this massive market: people who thought they hated poetry BUT WAIT!

xxxjimmy

 
At 5:40 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

PS: ALSO! And I could be wrong here (I don't know much about amazon.com. Amazon.com? Shouldn't a "fiercely" independent publisher like Soft Skull be supporting powells or spdbooks.org, anyway...) Wouldn't it behoove these Soft Skull authors to be linked to other books? Kerri's list is accessible through all those different books. PEOPLE WHO VIEWED THIS ALSO VIEWED THIS. That kind of thing. Click click click. So the list could be, minus the title which is weird and presumptive and negative and problematic, a useful tool to get your authors more looks. The title of the list could be "POETS FOR PEOPLE WHO LOVE GREAT FICTION" if the books were kind of narrative, etc. Positive! Upbeat! Oh, what's that? Sounds interesting! Click click click.

I work for a publisher, too. If I made a list of just the books from my press I hope someone would hit me with a car.

xxxjimmy

 
At 2:50 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

Who's Ken? Barbie's Ken? Didn't they break up? Naw, man, I always liked that dude...

xxxjimmy

 
At 1:26 PM, Blogger Jim Behrle said...

Shanna--

Why did you take your listmania list down??

http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/R3I1VVAC2WKSD5/002-3318327-7594435?%5Fencoding=UTF8

I made one of my own, it was fun.

xxxjimmy

 

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